I Believe in Stories
May. 16th, 2013 09:31 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
kiki_engsylvaine posted when will reality finally be my escapist fantasy? what's rapidly coming up to a month ago now, and it made me think, about the stories that I've written, read, and the reality that I live in.Like
sylvaine "I don't want to read about how awful people are to one another." Generally. I read a lot more unhappy stories when I was younger. I think that was part of letting in all sorts of experiences and discovering the world and learning to process and being a teenager and having all kinds of feelings. I've written -isms and despair in fic when those were part of my reality and things I needed to process; processing and expression and analysis through art is a thing.I read more fanfic than pro work these days, and that's not unrelated to a desire to escape. I don't want to read someone's prejudices; I am less patient with that kind of bullshit than I used to be. I am more assertive of that not being worth my time. There's this thing that happens when you primarily read m/m and f/f fic - you don't tend to run into a lot of homophobia, which hasn't always been the case. I think that earlier fic is more likely to contain homophobia, that there was more of a sense of pervasiveness that led to that getting written into fic, that it was a carry-over from reality. Mind, I'm not actually that old and I haven't been in fandom for that long, and my first experiences with fic were also coloured with being a teenager and a feeling of otherness. There are stories I read then that I don't read now because I'm not interested in them; I'm interested in different narratives now.
In Stargate: Atlantis and SG-1 fandom DADT was a huge thing and source of angst and unhappiness in stories because it was also those things in real life. There was a subset of stories in SGA that I loved a lot that were about how DADT was shit. All of the stories that touched on DADT were about that a little, but the ones I loved were about changing the rules or had McKay berating politicians. Those were really satisfying stories for me. They were angry and hopeful and determined and about action. I believe in stories like that, that plot out change, and I want to see stories with -isms in them, just so that I can see it called out, because there's some shit that we need to talk about if we want to change it.
The corner of fandom I hang out in is pretty good for a lot of things, for being devoid of a lot of the terrible things that are part of my reality, but refraining from using "girl" as a pejorative is really not one of them. (There's this whole angry post in my head titled "fuck you, I was an awesome teenaged girl".) I am so tired of seeing that in fic. The thing is that, all of those fics where it doesn't happen, that show an ideal world in that way - where that doesn't get said or thought - don't call the people that say or think those things on their bullshit. There are a lot of instances of -isms in our culture that are so ingrained that we don't recognise that they're there, that need to be pointed out so that we can stop committing them.
There's a hockey fic that I love to pieces for its inclusion of Patrick Kane casually calling out a team mate for using "girl" as an insult, and it's great. It's so great, because it does two things: it calls out that language as problematic and it shows a way of dealing with that situation in real life, which is amazing.
I believe in stories and I believe in fandom. I believe in the way that they can transmit ideas that can change the world. I believe in learning, and I think that the stories that we tell each other matter.
I don't think that every story should contain that kind of teachable moment. I don't think that every story needs to and I think that that would be boring and trying, frankly, but I think that there's a place for those stories and those moments. I think that identifying and addressing -isms is a necessary part of turning our escapist fantasy into reality.
I also think that escapist fantasy is an important part of turning our escapist fantasy into reality, that when we write stories about people being good to each other we can teach people to be good to each other.
I believe that stories matter. I believe that representation matters. I get excited about lesbian romcoms, happy polyamorous films, diverse casting, people recycling in fic, and I get upset about hockey fights, because the stories that we tell matter, because media matters, because they make up our culture, because you can't tell me that the hockey fight culture of the NHL wherein it is largely acceptable to get angry and punch someone is completely unrelated to the two guys on the bus talking casually about the domestic violence they'd committed, talking like it was a stupid thing that they'd done on the ice. You can not tell me that the stories that we tell do not shape our views and that those views do not shape our actions; I will not believe you.
I get frustrated when people include -isms in their fic that don't get called out because by not condemning them you accept and encourage them. A lot of Generation Kill fic is really terrible for this, and it's full of -isms because the source is, because reality is, because one of the goals of Generation Kill seems to have been a kind of unflinching realism, and one of it's theses is that the military/war was full of shit. So a lot of the fandom takes all of those slurs and shit as characterisation and serves them up in fic without really calling the characters on it, and while that's maybe a choice that makes sense for the series it maybe isn't one that makes sense for that romance you're writing. Maybe I'm weird but I don't believe that you need to put an entire group of people down to write characters shooting the shit or that people need to be racist or whatever.
I'm never going to buy characterisation as a justification for spreading hate and awfulness. ...and I feel like this post has maybe accidentally turned into "Dear Generation Kill Fandom: judging the fuck out of you." I like Generation Kill Fandom a lot, but I really wish parts of it were less accepting of casual -isms in speech, because I think it's harmful and I don't want to read unpleasant reality in my escapist fantasy; I don't want my escapist fantasy to contribute to the unpleasant reality.
I went to the cinema earlier this month and saw this artsy historical film with an unhappy ending and all of these gross tropes and -isms in it. I sat in front of someone who laughed at the evil people being kinky, laughed at the trans person, laughed at the fat person and I got progressively angrier, because, look, that shit isn't okay. It's not.
I look to fandom as a place where things are okay and there's a reason that I get pissed when I read fic wherein a character uses -ist language or expresses -ist opinions and doesn't get called on it within the story and there's an authors note warning for the -ism and explaining that it's in character and doesn't reflect the author's opinions, because- you know it's wrong, and you're doing it anyway? A note doesn't excuse you. It doesn't actually work that way.
For one thing, that author's note is usually vague rather than specific, so it doesn't really call the character out on their bullshit, but it does work to cover the author's ass. I mean, they warned for -ist language, so obviously they're aware of all the -ist language in their fic, right? (No.)
Sometimes that author's note is the equivalent of "No offense, but..." That thing you're doing, where you're including -isms in your fic without also condemning it in your fic? You're supporting those -isms with your fic. It's hurtful.
The film I went to watch wanted me to laugh at the trans person, wanted me to think that the kink they showed me was weird and gross; it was a fat-phobic, trans-phobic, kink-shaming, racist, sexist film. I'm alright with -isms in texts; I'm not alright with -ist texts.
I think art matters. I believe in the importance of stories. I believe that the stories we tell can change the way we see the world, that we can teach each other to make the world a better place. I believe that if we keep telling those stories they can come true.
That's my answer to
sylvaine's question, I guess. When will reality finally be my escapist fantasy? Maybe, after we've told those stories enough, they'll become true. *shrugs* (I believe in stories.)
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-17 02:01 am (UTC)Anyways this is very long, and I'm not sure where i was going but I love all of your points about what fandom has evolved, the good, the bad and hope of what each story is. Lovely my dear!
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-17 03:31 am (UTC)I love fandom for its creativity and optimism and enthusiasm, yeah. I love that we make stuff and share it with each other; that's awesome.
Fandom's different now, yeah. I think the internet in general has grown since I joined fandom. The landscape's changed a lot.
I do a lot of walking away rather than calling people on it when I see it, which I sort of feel like shit about, but the alternative is sort of overwhelming for me.
Hockey. Agh. Did you see that Montreal-Ottawa game where they lost like half of both teams to fighting and they both had these near-empty benches? You know I'm new to hockey, so I was watching that going Huh. How many people are there going to be in that box? and No, no, PK, I thought you weren't like all the other boys and No. No. Why are they doing this? and You know what? If you can't play nice you shouldn't get to play at all. You should all get penalties, so there's no one on the ice and everyone has to sit and watch nothing happen for however many minutes it takes. You can all think about what you've done. No hockey for you. I'm pretty sure I've known that hockey was violent before I knew what hockey was, so, it's not like this was really a shock, but at the same time, part of that whole growing up thing for me was learning not to hit people - hitting people: not acceptable behaviour. ...and then that bus thing happened like two days later. (I may still have some feelings.)
I have tea that smells amazing. It might be pink.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-17 07:03 am (UTC)Thank you for finding such powerful words to describe an opinion that I share 100%, but sure as hell would never have been able to express so succinctly.
♥
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-17 01:49 pm (UTC)Thoughts
Date: 2013-05-17 06:38 pm (UTC)In the epilogue of "Safe Keeping" I have General Ross using 'cute little girls' as a vulgar dismissal of two immensely capable women whose machinations have just kicked his ass. It's there to tag him as a villain and indicate one of the ways in which he is an idiot.
For a call-out, you might like the opening sequence of "Living on the Edges" in which Rick is a jerk, Brenda gives him the cold shoulder, and Darrel tells him off.
I think our tastes in reading material run similar. I enjoy stories that deal with serious issues, but I dislike it when the bad guys -- or ideas -- win in end. If I liked that sort of thing, I'd watch the news. I want to see characters in positive settings, or rocking the boat hard enough to make a difference in more negative settings.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2013-05-18 04:52 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-19 07:07 pm (UTC)I absolutely agree about stories plotting out change and showing the world in a more positive light. One of the key things about fan-fiction as a medium is that it's a bit idealist and reactionary. Not just "these are the stories we want to see the characters in", but also this is the world we want to see, this is how we want to see people interact. It's this is where we want to be, but not necessarily how we're going to get there. So seeing fandom behaving in a way that is counter to this idea, seems wrong. The justification of making it more realistic/how people in X situation actually talk, doesn't hold up because fandom is not about the real world as it is now. It's about what we want.
I think to a certain extent spending a lot of time in fandom can be insulating. I was at a volunteer thing a while ago and a bunch of the volunteers were high school kids. One of them made a comment about something being "so gay" and I was shocked. I'd gotten so used to that just not being something you say. I'm ashamed to say that it caught me so by surprise that I didn't call him on it. The second time he said it I did, and he seemed shocked that anyone would do that. I guess people aren't used to anyone calling them on their bs and therefore don't know what that sounds like. Is it a thing people still do? They should do it more often.
That was longer than I intended. The point is I agree, I want media/art that is a model for how the world should be, not just a mirror for how it sometimes is.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-21 12:21 am (UTC)I think a lot of it is, yeah, but I think there's a good chunk of it that that wouldn't be a really good descriptor for; fandom's a pretty big place.
Not just "these are the stories we want to see the characters in", but also this is the world we want to see, this is how we want to see people interact.
I think this is sort of true, but there are outliers, too. I mean, I read happy romance fic, basically, for the most part, and within that there are moments of "Oh, baby, no." directed at the characters (and sometimes the authors, too, honestly, but that's sort of another thing) where they're sort of failing at interacting in an ideal fashion, which, where it's something like failboats in love is sort of inspiring (also: hilarious) in a "Hey, if they can find love..." way, but, like, whump is a genre. There are some pretty bleak stories that really don't show the world I want to see, but that I love anyway.
I do think that there are places where -isms in fic make sense and are justified, but I think that whether or not that's justified is maybe something that people need to think more about.
[...]fandom is not about the real world as it is now. It's about what we want.
I think that what we want has a lot to do with the real world; it's what we're reacting to, after all.
I think to a certain extent spending a lot of time in fandom can be insulating.
Yes. I think this is the case with basically any social circle, but yeah. I think I talked to you about this a bit ago, when I was running into some racism and basically being flummoxed. I wrote some of that into fic, happy fluffy ridiculous romance fic, because I was angry - I'm still angry - and because I didn't want to feel like I was pretending that that was a thing that didn't happen, because I think there's this attitude that, you know, ________ has equal rights, so it's all copacetic, like racism and sexism and so on aren't still kicking around. That fic's the Bomb Girls coffee shop AU and the (1940s) canon deals with racism and sexism, which is, you know, still present in 2013's Canada.
Is it a thing people still do?
It is.
I want media/art that is a model for how the world should be, not just a mirror for how it sometimes is.
Same. I feel like if it is a copy, it should be one with red ink on it, because, yeah, we don't need to be passing that shit on, unintentionally or otherwise.
Yeah, so this was also maybe longer than I intended. I felt the need to clarify some things, basically.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-22 10:14 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-22 12:06 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-23 10:32 pm (UTC)Link plz?
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-24 09:34 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-07 06:06 pm (UTC)Seabs decides to join the chirping. "It's a book about fucking werewolves, Kaner. For teenage girls."
"My sisters are teenage girls and they're fucking awesome, so shut the fuck up," he retorts. "And the werewolves don't show up until the sequel, and they're an analogy for, like, normal relationships based on mutual trust and respect or whatever. Dick."
(Sorry it's almost a year later?)
(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-07 11:28 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-09 10:04 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-23 11:44 pm (UTC)I'm a little unsure of when addressing -isms turns into a neutral or positive treatment of them. Some settings or characters are absolutely full of them, and not every instance can be individually called out even when the fic as a whole is addressing one or more -isms, which is not true of every fic even from writers whose goal it is to address them. That said, it's a good idea to at least try. I feel like that does matter, at least a little.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-24 09:51 pm (UTC)What's your meta on?
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-24 10:23 pm (UTC)My meta asserts that happy endings can be realistic in some cases, that a happy ending does not necessarily mean a work can't show how horrible something is, and that it would be valid to prefer happy endings even if neither of those things were true.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-14 09:17 pm (UTC)I read a really long issues fic a while ago, and the length was justified, I think, because working through all of those issues - racism, sexism, classism, etc. - took time, so I can see the merit of breaking a fic like that up into a series; I can see that making sense and I think that's maybe a place where content notes are useful. I think that if you're writing the story of an -ist character slowly learning the error of their ways leaving -ist things in because they're in character makes sense, but I do think there are alternatives to that kind of language? Like, just to clarify, basically, I do not think that IC is a good reason to leave stuff in without addressing it; I think addressing it is important.
I'm good with non -ist fanon characterisation; I'd be happy with that being a thing.
Your meta sounds interesting. (I've had it open, unread, in a tab for almost three weeks now - it's apparently been that sort of month.)
(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-14 10:09 pm (UTC)What issues fic was it?
So, if I'm writing a few different standalones in a canon that has problems with, say, ableism, classism, fatphobia, and sexism, then, in one fic, I might address the ableism and classism in-fic, and mention in my notes that the fatphobia and sexism are bad things, possibly with a link to a fic where I addressed them?
Non-hypothetical question: one of my canons has two incredibly popular fan-favorite characters who are portrayed as awesome, and as people to look up to and emulate. One believes that survival of the fittest dictates that it's a bad idea to try to save the whole world instead of just finding some way to protect your specific town when the ecosystem is destroyed. The other forces groups of people (I forget exactly how many, but on the order of thirty or so) to fight until only one remains alive, and talks about how important it is that everyone be useful, where "useful" is defined as able to fight. (My fandom horrifies me sometimes. How are these people fan favorites?) Because of plot reasons, they're useful characters to plug into action-heavy adventure plots, or plots dealing with canon mysteries surrounding a species of talking weasels that created the world, built uninhabitable cities and disappeared (it makes more sense in context). What would you do about that?
Another non-hypothetical: in the middle of a fic that's already dealing with a lot-- nondisabled family members grieving disabilities their relatives have, and why a supporting character's actions seemed calculated to get the result xe claimed not to want, that I can think of off the top of my head-- the line that is the most in-character and most stylistically pleasing involves dismissing a character by calling him "crazy" (here meaning a terrible parent who does things like force people to fight to the death and let his kid be exiled, so it's not even that the character is mentally ill, which I don't think he is). I'm wondering whether there's another way to insult this character that scans as smoothly, or whether there's a way to make the fic deal with the reasons "crazy" is a problematic insult in that context.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-15 03:06 am (UTC)The fic I mentioned:
Genealogies of Silence by
St. Trinian's| Rated: Mature | 91,695 words | Harriet-centric
Summary: These are the things we don't talk about. This is the story we never tell.
So, if I'm writing a few different standalones in a canon that has problems with, say, ableism, classism, fatphobia, and sexism, then, in one fic, I might address the ableism and classism in-fic, and mention in my notes that the fatphobia and sexism are bad things, possibly with a link to a fic where I addressed them?
I don't know. That sounds weird to me. Like, my gut reaction is unhappiness? Because I feel like that note could come off as this vague general statement, like Fatphobia isn't cool. I wrote a fic about that once: here's the link. The fic promo is really weird to me, too. (What I had in mind when writing the earlier comment was something like "There is transphobia when Character A does/says this specific thing.")
That canon sounds so depressing, and I tend to skew towards happy fic. I was reading a fic earlier today that I back-buttoned on because the first scene made me go Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaape. Rape. *blinks a lot*. My idea of consent is sometimes drastically different than some authors in that fandom, but I'll read stuff that makes me seethe or eyeroll more and more frequently in that fandom because of that higher saturation. It's sort of interesting where the tipping point of done with this thing is.
What would you do about that?
...elaborate fix-it fic? IDK. I am not really sure what you are asking here.
With crazy and all of those other words what I'd do is try to unpack it? What are you using that word to mean? That's "horrifying"? "Scary"? "Cruel"? "Cold"? If you plop "ableist" and whatever problematic word into a search box you're likely to get some articles with lists of alternative words in your results. I do think that sometimes that problematic language is going to sound smoother in a way, because it's so pervasive? But, you know, fuck that, basically.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-15 03:58 am (UTC)I think the canon in question is broken rather than depressing. When one of these characters was being set up as awesome, it was strongly implied that he was pitting one person against thirtyish semi-skilled automatons. Later, when two characters need to face off for a plot point, they're no longer automatons, and it seems like the writers forgot to think that change through.
That's a good idea! :D I'll define it and see what happens. I do that in real life, but I hadn't considered doing it in fiction.
Thank you for the link.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-15 01:03 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-25 03:13 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-26 02:04 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-26 01:20 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-14 08:58 pm (UTC)